Welcome to Quill Quotes Book Club, Educated Discussion #1! We hope you are enjoying Educated by Tara Westover so far. Please keep in mind this discussion is only for Part I (Chapters 1-16). If you have read ahead or finished the book, please keep any spoilers or thoughts on later parts for the next discussions. See the Educated Book Club Summary Page for the reading schedule details and other discussions.
Brooke’s Thoughts
I knew this family was going to be unusual but I had no idea how much. If this story was fiction, I probably wouldn’t like it because I would say it is too unrealistic. How can one family have so many accidents? Also, it doesn’t seem like it should take place in modern times in the USA. It blows my mind that Tara is probably only a few years older than me and that she did better on the ACT than me on her second attempt!
Favorite Quote
“All my life those instincts had been instructing me in this single doctrine– that the odds are better if you rely on yourself.”
–Tara Westover, Educated
Kevin’s Thoughts
So far, I’ve enjoyed this book! It can be a little hard to follow at times with the way her childhood stories jump around, but I think this matches the chaotic nature of Tara’s upbringing. With all the dangers and accidents her family faced, it seems pretty lucky that none of the family died. It’s also pretty amazing that Tara was able to self teach and do so well on the ACT and get to college. I’m interested to see how college goes for her with such a different childhood.
Favorite Quote
“Learning in our family was entirely self-directed: you could learn anything you could teach yourself, after your work was done.”
– Tara Westover, Educated
Vote
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Educated Discussion #1 Prompts/Questions
Feel free to comment whatever thoughts and questions you have! But if you aren’t sure where to start, consider some of the prompts / questions below:
- Can you be normal and fit into society after growing up so different?
- Do you remember Y2K? Were you scared or did you prepare for a disaster?
- How do you think you’d handle being in Tara’s family? Would you stay or find a way to leave?
- Share a favorite quote.
- How do you feel about fiction versus nonfiction?
Commenting
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We hope you enjoy this discussion and join us again next week for Part II (Chapters 17-29). Check the Educated Book Club Summary Page for details.
If someone handed me this book to read, but did not include the usual synopsis on the back, and at the end of part one asked me whether I was reading fiction or non-fiction I do not know if I would confidently be able to tell. It could be the religious fanatic of a father who believes that public school is a brainwashing agency, and that the Illuminati runs the government, and who is consistently responsible for life threatening injuries on multiple members of his family. Or the mother who acquiesces to her mentally ill husband and who believes energy treatments, essential oils, and herbs are a cure all. Maybe it’s the family unit that lives in the mountains of Idaho stockpiling weapons, food, and other resources waiting for the end of the world. No. What makes me stop and hesitate when deciding between fiction and non-fiction is not the parents but the children; specifically Tyler and Tara who having no formal education still find this pull to go to college. When Tara is describing trying to learn trigonometry and slowly but surely succeeding, I am flabbergasted. I can confidently say that the idea of having to teach myself trigonometry without having any kind of strong foundation in mathematics seems like the kind of situation nightmares are made from. Tyler going on to get a degree in mechanical engineering and then a PhD is just as unbelievable. That these two children are able to rise past their indoctrination, their lack of education, their mental and physical abuse and decide their lives would be different from that of their parents is inspiring. If two “backcountry” Idahoans can do it then there should be no obstacles that the rest of us cannot overcome.
I am enjoying this book very much. The short memories that describe and give further light to different characters are easy to read and even with the small time skips in between them the narrative as a whole flows very well. The book is also very informative: I’ve learned about apocalyptic prepping and scrapping in Idaho and I’ve had to look up some of the tenets of the Mormon church to place the environment the family was in. I am looking forward to the second half of the book and hopefully, unlike In a Field of Blue, I will not be disappointed. While I am mentioning previous book club books, when I began reading Educated and Westover was describing her home there was moment I believed she was going to begin describing a lake. I figured since QuillQuotes has already chosen two books that have described a scenic lake this one would make it three out of three. But unfortunately there is no lake to be found, just an amazing mountain. Hopefully the author returns as an adult and we can see what the Princess means to her then.
I agree it would be pretty hard to guess whether it was fiction or non-fiction if I didn’t know going in. Along with both Tyler and Tara educating themselves and getting into college without a formal education, which is incredible, I’m also amazed that none of the accidents described were fatal. If this was fiction, I’d find it pretty hard to believe that so many serious injuries could heal without modern medicine. Even as nonfiction, I thought Shawn would die as a result of the motorcycle crash. It’s definitely an inspiring story of what people can overcome!
At first, I found the time skips a bit confusing but once all the siblings were introduced it got easier for me to follow. I’ve also learned a lot of new perspectives from this book and had to look up about the Fed’s raid on the Weavers (Ruby Ridge on Wikipedia) that affected their father’s outlook so much. I might have heard about it at some point but it didn’t stick enough for me to know whether her dad’s story was true or just something to scare the family into preparing.
I hadn’t noticed the lake similarity between the first two Quill Quotes book club reads; it would have been funny if this one had a lake too! I think Tara will return to the family after her education, but I’m not sure how that will go… I can’t wait to read more and find out!
Yes, I could be somewhat normal and fit into society. Oh my. What does one say about this sadistic man..? I hope part 2 is more in the children’s favor. They certainly deserve it. Tara certainly was bold enough to hold down jobs while still a teen. I really don’t what else to say. .how could all this happen and no authorities to check on the kids. School, health and well being was not something they could look forward to.
That is amazing that she was able to work so many jobs and do the play all while studying for the ACT. Again, I’m mind blown that these events took place not that long ago. You would think especially after the 2nd car accident the authorities would have stepped in. I hope things get better for her too but I think she is going to struggle fitting in at school.
I too think the thirst for book-learning was borne out of rebellion. Nothing like a bit of rebellion as part of growing up. I would have left in search of job or education. It would have been sad to leave mom, yet, at least Tara knows her mom was supportive of her leaving.
Yea, I think I would have left too but probably for a job like Tony and Audrey. It’s hard for me to imagine growing up without school but if I had I’m not sure where the idea/drive would come from to leave for college. Finding a job to earn money and pay my own way seems like a much more approachable option.
I hope we learn more about her mother supporting her choice to leave. Saying she always expected Tara to leave but didn’t see it coming from Tyler seems really surprising from what we know so far. Without Tyler’s help, it doesn’t seem like Tara would have left, at least not for school.
I am enjoying this book! I have enjoyed biographies/memoirs since childhood but have not indulged in reading one in many years. Tara’s account of growing up in a form of isolation, conservative religious influence, and self-education makes the reading all the more interesting especially considering my upbringing as a preacher’s kid and current career in education.
I appreciate Tara’s awareness and acknowledgement of differences in the recollection and/or perception of events by various family members and onlookers. It fascinates me how people viewing and experiencing the same event can perceive and process so differently. I think these differences occur because we all process through the lens of all our past experiences, thoughts, and emotions making the processing unique to each individual. I like to consider why Tara and Tyler chose university education over other options. What made them different? Did Tyler’s early exposure to public education influence his and therefore Tara’s choice?
The many accidents strike me as a slew of compulsive decisions sometimes borne from the rashness of mental illness and/or outright defiance of conventional standards. What I find amazing is their ability to survive, often defying the norms of conventional medicine! Traumatic brain injuries, third degree burns–who survives these with alternative therapies!?!? At least some do, as attested to in this memoir.
I have not yet identified a favorite quote but did notice each of the quotes noted by Brooke and Kevin. I found the quote on self-reliance a bit sad, especially in the context of Tara being “saved” by Shawn in the exact scenario she thought would be impossible. As for being self-taught, I think there is nothing better than life long learning! Looking forward to part 2.
I haven’t read a biography or memoir for a while either so I am glad this one won. I am really enjoying it so far.
I thought it was so interesting too that everyone remembered things slightly differently. I understand how little things can be misremembered since they happened so long ago. I’m sure no one remembers how Luke ended up in the trash bin after the fire incident since it all happened so fast and it was so shocking. But Dwain not remembering being at the motorcycle accident scene and helping Shawn get to the hospital blows my mind. I feel like seeing the aftermath of a motorcycle accident and someone’s brain isn’t something you forget especially if you help them get to the hospital. It also doesn’t seem like something Tara would forget or mistake. Maybe it wasn’t a big deal to him or he blocked it out or Tara was so upset she misremembered. I agree with you though we all process the information differently and we each hold on to different details that are important to us.
I am not sure what made Tara and Tyler different and why they wanted to go to school. The mom said she also felt like Tara was different and would be the one to get out. Maybe we will learn more in the next chapters.
All of their accidents make me wonder if they are really unlucky or lucky? Are they unlucky for getting into so many accidents (or is it really bad decision making on their parts) or are they really lucky for surviving without modern medicine and doctors? I can’t imagine the amount of pain they suffered. It shows are resilient people can be.
I never read many biographies growing up but have started to find them more interesting as an adult. Acknowledging the differences in the recollection of certain events is really interesting. It’s crazy that such big events could be remembered so differently by her siblings or Dwain completely forgetting he was at Shawn’s motorcycle accident.
I’m amazed that none of the family died with the rash decisions and accidents they often faced, especially without the aid of modern medicine. Goes to show the resilience of the human body, I guess.
The self-reliance quote is a bit sad, although it doesn’t really seem like Tara or any of the family really believed it. If Tara had really believed it and thought it was impossible for Shawn to catch up and save her on the horse she would have taken the risk to let go and try to free her leg. The family also seems to reject society and modern amenities like schools and hospitals but still rely on the mother for their healthcare and it seems like the original intention was to truly homeschool with books and a computer they kept in the basement. The fact that they had a computer while rejecting a phone connection at some points was really surprising to me.
This book is eye opening because of the dad not trusting anyone and putting all faith in God. It does seem like they were in 1800’s like the early settlers when they only had themselves to rely on. I wonder if Tara and some of her brothers just wanted to learn from books so bad just because it’s something their dad said no to so their way of rebelling and they needed to fit in the world around them.
I do remember Y2K I don’t remember preparing much for it. I had confidence in IT people my thought was they have figured out how to get computers to run why couldn’t they figure out how to change the dates.
I remember being more worried when we lived in Missouri about a earthquake that someone said was supposed to happen. They even called off schools. That was 30 years ago and still can’t predict earthquakes.
I certainly would have wanted to leave the dad maybe not the mom I would feel bad leaving her there with the dad alone since he never cared about anyone’s well being. I felt so bad for her after the car accident and suffered through a head injuring with no concern from her husband.
I’m looking forward to reading on and finding out more about Tara and her families life’s.
I haven’t read a nonfiction in awhile I forgot how I enjoy them. It’s like when reading parts that are hard to fathom you think wow that really happened not a made up story. I went through a time when I really liked true crime stories they always had those wow moments. Maybe you will have to put in true crime as one of your genres they can be great reads.
That makes sense that it probably was some form of rebellion. You tell kids no and it only makes them want to do it more!
Yea, I don’t remember being too scared about Y2K. I think I was too young to even understand what it was.
It’s crazy how they shut down the schools for a possible earthquake! Interesting how beliefs can spread like that and cause a panic. I remember when everyone thought the world was going to end in 2012 too.
I think that car accident was the worst since it was Tyler driving and he felt so guilty. I don’t know how they survived without doctors.
I wonder if the mom would have been more normal if she didn’t marry the dad. He’s the one who seems to be doing most of the brainwashing.
I like to read nonfiction every once in a while too! But sometimes they can be really sad. We definitely will put true crime in the genre vote at some point! Thanks for the suggestion!
I agree too about the thirst for learning being a form of rebellion. It’s still impressive to learn so much just from books though!
I remember hearing about Y2K but I don’t think anyone I knew really thought anything would happen so I didn’t think about it too much. I was too young to really understand the importance of computers and be scared of what might happen if they did fail. I remember the 2012 thing too but mostly from the movie; what was that one, the end of the Mayan calendar or something?
Tyler feeling guilty about the crash would be pretty bad but I think the burns on Luke’s leg would be more horrific. I can’t imagine being 10 years old and having to deal with your brother being burned and delirious all alone. It’s pretty amazing that Luke’s leg healed and didn’t get infected or anything.
It seems their mom married their dad as a form of rebellion against her mother same as Tara and Tyler’s decision to seek an education. We don’t know too much about Tara’s grandparents but her mom’s mom definitely seems to have wanted a different life for her daughter. It also seems like the dad was fairly normal when they got married and the oldest children went to school and seem to have had fairly normal childhoods up to a certain point. Tara eludes to the fact that her dad might have a mental illness at some points but it’d be interesting to know more about how his conspiracy fears took hold.
Yes, it would be very interesting to know when the fathers mind took a turn for the worst. I am from a large family of 8 including parents and I believe we knew that our parents loved us but did not show or say the love. I had siblings I would not trust today but all is good there, too. Family is family and maybe Tara felt that too. I am glad we do not all think alike and I like the opinion of others. Hopefully part 2 takes tara’s life to the next level although she has her sights set on college which is a good level to be at so good on her.